Hogwarts School of Grid-Down Medicine and Wizardry is open for business, and we welcome you.
OK, so this is not an actual, accredited school, nor is it a business (yet). But it is a blog developed by Doc Grouch, and Ivy Mike for the citizen concerned with medical care in a grid-down scenario.
You are encouraged to read our disclaimer right away to understand what we are AREN’T trying to do, and to acknowledge the fact that this is still just two guys on the Internet publishing things.
That being said, we will be focusing on wilderness first aid and related activities, because without the magic of fossil-fueled transportation, logistics, first-world security, electricity, running water, and flushing toilets, the medicine can get pretty primitive, pretty fast.
We don’t plan on inventing a lot of new content, but using what we think is the best of what has been created and proven effective by others. We will not be advocating untried or silly things on here, because the two of us share the common oath to “Do No Harm.” We will be providing color on what our experiences have taught us along the way, and the things to look out for that may not be in the official instructions and publications. We will also, inasmuch as it is practical and safe, encourage the student to “do” things, as opposed to simply reading.
Medicine is science and is constantly evolving. What was standard practice five years ago is verboten now, and conversely, things being done now may be verboten five years from now. It’s all about data over time and the benefits weighed against the risks of any course of treatment. With that, we will do our best to provide the most current and historical information that aligns with grid-down realities.
Right now, the content is sparse, but we will be getting things online and filling out the site. We are using the “Crawl, Walk, Run” method of content development. We recognize that knowledge and skill levels of our readers may be all over the map, so apologies up front to any more advanced clinicians that may be on the site as we fill out the basics before the more advanced stuff.
Dear readers, to make the site as good as it can be, we need your feedback and discussion to help us drive out the content you will find most valuable. So by all means, pipe in. Discuss, but don’t disrupt. We have a ban hammer in our medkit and can prescribe it in acute cases.
On a technical note, the left side of the site is a navigation tool that currently holds a lot of empty pages. That’s going to change over time as we fill out the site, so just click on the articles in the middle of the page for now.
If you are an experienced clinician and have similar interests in grid-down medicine, let us know if there are certain areas you’d like to help out with, as we are open to additional contributors. We would be quite interested in any readers with a background in surgery, OB/GYN, PT/OT, or combat medics.
We sincerely hope you find value in the site and look forward to serving you all.
Doc Grouch and Ivy Mike
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What are your thoughts on MRSA as to how it will affect medical procedures, treatment, and recovery in a grid down world? This is something that has affected an elderly family member of mine recently and has blind-sided our plans for wintering it out in FL.
Well heck, tfA-t, you brought the pain early. Tell you what. That’s a pretty big question that probably deserves a post of its own, since Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA) and other antibiotic-resistant bacteria are an unfortunate reality in this day and age. I will confer with Doc Grouch and we’ll get something up there for you. MRSA infections are a big issue in hospitals and skilled nursing facilities (aka nursing homes) and there is a lot of good info out there in the “grid-up” world, but “grid-down” aspects are a little thin. Great question and stay tuned for more.
First World Cleanliness, even when the antibiotics have run out, maybe especially when, takes on new emphasis.
Figure out how long MRSA can live on a surface, untreated, then start treating with what you have. Steam. Time (don’t put new patient in a still-warm bed of died-by-MRSA patient) & distance between sick and well might help. Fast disposable “pocket lab” 95% accurate tests to determine what an infection is or is not, while waiting for definitive tests to come back in 3 days. Labor is getting cheaper, so why not pay some to clean more? Gloves + handwashing for real this time. Try ethanol, strong UV light, acids, reactive metals, what have you? Flamethrowers as a last resort.
Don’t Sick. Stay healthy and fit, making outcome better and life better.
Did anyone notice that Vet’s would be exempt from ObamaCare when/if “H.R. 22, the Hire More Heroes Act of 2015”, passes? Is that like $7/hr lower cost for an employer of the Vet, or what?
“Flamethrowers as a last resort”–priceless
Just found this site via wrsa…Great idea!
Herbs and essential oils are great and effective ways to deal with many things…mrsa included.
For mrsa the key oils are oregano, thyme, tea-tree. Oregano is a “hot” oil. It must be diluted with fractionated coconut oil. A little sniffing around on line will probably answer most of your questions.
Herbs for mrsa. Calendula, lemongrass are a few. Spouse is one of the additional trades you seek. She has a salve recipe that she makes/ used successfully in the past. The ingreds above are just part, she couldn’t remember the rest but will get back with it asap. It was used on a patient that had an incision infected with mrsa. It was applied and within 6-8 hrs. some nasty shit seeped/oozed from the wound. The wound cleared and healed nicely.
We began the herbal/oil deal about 3-4 years ago. At first, it was an experiment on ourselves, family, a few friends. It has expanded since with great results. You have to remember, this is where pharma got it’s start. We are growing a lot of our own and beginning to distill our own oils.
A good, inexpensive site to get bulk oils is http://www.bulkapothecary.com The oils are commercial grade and usually half the cost of mainstream Ponzi oil corps.
We just want to be able to care well for ourselves, family, friends and patriot community. Perhaps I can get spouse to contribute in the future. A lot on her plate currently.
There is a lot of great new tech medical wise out there. We however will not be able to afford most of it. That is why we are reverting back to the “old school”…we are in our 50’s, it is who we are.
“don’t go down without one helluva fight”
I have not explored the realms of essential oils much. You are correct in saying much of pharma got its start from various natural products, then purified, modified and improved in various labs. I feel that if you have Western Medicine available, with good, clearly documented solutions to MRSA (such as bleach, silver or copper treatments, 70% EtOH for surfaces/objects, or vancomycin, doxycyline, Bactrim, Linezolid, & etc for patients) you should stick to that. I have not personally seen any high quality studies documenting the use of essential oils for MRSA treatment; if you know of any, please send them my way.
lastmanstanding- I’d be interested in that recipe of your wifes for my own research and trial.
Doc G.- My understanding of Big Pharma is they go the route of Patent Medicine i.e. – chemically synthesized or synthetic drugs.
Big Pharma has no option but to do so. Taking a new drug to market is expensive–and we can have discussions about why that is and should it be so, but for now we can skip past that–and they have to recoup that investment or go out of business. And by expensive I mean, oh, $250-500 million dollars. So they have to patent a specific drug, the specific compound, the specific method–something! otherwise the competition can quickly reverse-engineer the drug and undercut the price. The FDA approval process for a generic (which is what a reverse-engineered drug would be) is at least 10 fold less expensive; they can then kill the parent company on price.
Also–I don’t mean to bash essential oils, or any other alternative therapy. I’m open to all that, I’d just like to see the data. Which is the same thing I say to the drug reps from Big Pharma.
No problem Doc G, thanks for your reply…it’s just that your site…griddownmed…attracted me…it is why we have gone this direction. Life after big pharma…and perhaps the grid.
I just decided that when I get old, I don’t want to have one or 2 of those 12 pill holder deals, with day’s of the week and what freaking pill is in each compartment, etc., etc. like all of my older family…it’s bs, a rip and I’m just not going there. Who in the hell can advertise their products like they do, with gub approval and make billions of dollars…and get away with it.
The only documentation that we use, need is word of mouth. If you want to try it, great, if you don’t, great…you make the choice. All I can say is that it is working for us and those that ask us for it.
tfA-t…hang tight, working on it for you. If I don’t get it to you on this link, I’ll get it to you some how.
You might be amused to know I’m not a huge fan of taking meds, myself. Neither is my (pediatrician) wife. And I can’t say as I blame you for not wanting to live as a slave to the pill bottle.
Nor do I want to give the impression–well, it may be too late there–that I disapprove. I think modern medicine is solid where it is solid. I think we can try and use our current first world technology and know-how to improve a potential grid down situation. I do realize that a long-term grid down will return us to heavy use of what we now call “alternative” but used to be the real deal. One of the reasons I became interested in grid-down medicine is as a reaction to the ICU medicine I typically practice. What would I do? How would I make this-or-that medication, that is life-saving? Is it even possible?
I assure you I’ll be looking into medicinal plants, both those that have been co-opted by modern medicine (like willow bark–> aspirin, opium–>morphine, mold–>antibiotics, etc) and those that have not. I confess my training does not help me there. I would appreciate it if you could send me links to a few books/references/web sites etc so I can investigate.
I’ll start here for now:https://nccih.nih.gov
Visit old hospital buildings and you’ll see hard floors that can be mopped with disinfecting solutions, and tile halfway up the wall. Visit “modern” hospitals and you’ll see carpet on the floor. Man knows how to make a building without particles in the air or on the surfaces, that’s a clean room for silicon chip fabrication. Consider the idea that modern non-emergency medicine and modern carb-heavy food isn’t quite trying to kill you, but it wants you to be constantly sick and on a short leash, dependent on its treatments. MRSA kills too quickly for healthcare to be a good parasite, diabetes and cholesterol problems from the FDA’s starchy wheat diet is much better.
I’ve never been in a hospital that had anything other than hard floors on the hospital wards, and I’ve been in about 20 different ones. We did have carpet on the floor in our Gross Anatomy lab in medical school–you can imagine what that was like. However, despite the overall squishy-ness of the floor after year 2 (they changed the carpet every 3 years) there was no infection risk with all the formaldehyde around.
The debate over the high carb, diabetes-inducing diet is still ongoing in the scientific community. Certainly Karl Denninger, among others, is in favor of a carb-restricted diet (see here, for example). I, personally, reduced the simple sugars in my diet with great results. I also acknowledge, however, that there are many different folks, with many different metabolisms, and not all people will respond to the same diet in the same way. Also, formal study of all the different diets is very unlikely.
My personal advice to patients is as follows: 1. Most folks know, deep down inside, how to eat healthy, they just don’t want to. At least some of this is because the combination of fat/sugar/pinch of salt is addictive, in the same way cocaine is addictive (but see here). 2. You can’t get skinny on the same food that made you fat. 3. Look at the breadth of things you eat; some things will be healthy, others not so much. Eat more of the stuff that you like, that is healthy, and stretch that side of the plate; avoid (as much as you can) the bad side of the plate. 4. Never diet! Diets are temporary. The goal is to change the way you approach food.
I’ve never been in a hospital that had anything other than hard floors on the hospital wards, and I’ve been in about 20 different ones.
I have, on the hallways outside the patient rooms, and this was a major university research hospital. They “cleaned” that carpet with some kind of rotary buffer looking thing, I expect it just stirred stuff up into the air after patients dripped blood into it. I used to clean the insides of electronic equipment at the nurses’ stations, with fans that cooled the electronics. Amazing how much dust bunnies would accumulate inside the equipment in 30 days, I have never seen such a dusty place in any other office-type environment. This includes nurses’ stations in the ICU areas. Burn unit was the only place I went into that was kept clean. I never went into the OR areas.
The debate over the high carb, diabetes-inducing diet is still ongoing in the scientific community.
So is the debate over global warming, but when I go to the beach I don’t see the sea level has risen compared to the old docks.
Reblogged this on Starvin Larry and commented:
Thank you for setting up this site,having people with actual,real world experience is always a big plus,and you guys can separate the garbage from what’s useful and relevant as far as stuff that’s been posted on the interwebz.
Thanks Larry. We’re glad to be up and running and glad that you are here. Looking forward to working with everyone.
Most excellent to say the least.
Being mostly ignorant of medicine, I can’t say enough how much I appreciate you fellows for the opportunity to learn practical and basic application, uses, and procedures of medicine without access to standard medical services.
If I had to list priorities based on my limited knowledge, the following items rank as most important.
A list of antibiotics, their various names, most suitable uses, doses, effects/how they work, common infections, best types to stockpile, possible veterinary substitutes.
Combat medicine, under fire, after combat followup care, injuries, in primitive conditions.
Care of with open wounds, burns, broken bones, common injuries, heart attacks, fevers, dysentery, cholera etc. in primitive conditions.
I know that is a lot of stuff to cover, but anything which can be is a great service.
Thanks for you caring and consideration.
Appreciate it, MTP. Suggestions duly noted. Stay tuned for more.
We plan on covering all those topics. Unfortunately, there are only 2 of us so far, so it may be a bit before we get to all of those things.
Antibiotics will require multiple posts, that is a non-trivial topic; indeed, Infectious Disease is an entire subspecialty of medicine.
To get up to speed quickly in combat medicine, or at least get a grasp, I would recommend this link:
and then also look into the classes by Max Velocity, Mosby, etc. There are also civilian versions you can get, but let’s keep it in the family!
For wound care, once we get there, we will use the following text:
Which is free, of course.
You will also find a link on the site to the Special Operations medical handbook.
That should be enough to get you started!
Guys, can I suggest that you take the tie to contact a guy named RESQDOC (AKA Marshall Keith Brown, DO, FRCblah blah blah) who has been involved with Remote and Austere Medicine as well as Tactical and Foreward Based Medicine for a whole bunch of years?
Tell him some old guy he took to Pakistan and sent home sent ya.
Will look into him. Thanks a bunch BlueMudPatriot.
Also, at some point you wiil likely want to do some serious discussion of grid down/remote austere situational wound care, and in there ya prolly want to do the best job ya can in terms of explaining to yer readers why NOT to close wounds, why closing a wound does NOT make wound care easier or better.
Garan-damn-TEE ya there will be gazillions of folks who will want to sew everything up nice and tight…..
We will likely use this as a reference, should anyone be interested in cheating, and looking ahead:
And yes, there will be tons of folks who want to stitch, but do so inappropriately. Knowing what not to do is just as important.
Bluemud and Doc, you couldn’t be more spot on. Especially GSWs and high velocity wounds like blast injuries. Its usually day 2 or 3 before any competent combat surgeon will start thinking about closing a wound and then only after debrideing it and aseptically cleaning it. You would be amazed at how much necrosed tissue has to be removed from just a simple 7.62 round to the leg. If its a simple laceration fine, sew away. Just be sure you aren’t closing up some nasty bacteria inside and creating a five star bacteria hotel and spa.
The timing of your site launch could not be more perfect for me. I’ve made some small progress in a number of areas, but meds and related techniques and info? There I am woefully unprepared. The more I learn, the more I can see how little I know. I look forward to growing my knowledge with your site!
Glad that we can help. I do hope that we can get enough information out there, quickly enough, to make a difference for someone.
Muchly appreciated and will share. Thank you!!
BC surgical oncologist, former attending surgeon at two level I trauma centers, ATLS instructor. Would be happy to help
Thanks! Sent an email with info.
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This should be shiny. Looking forward to expanding my skill-set.
Thanks and welcome.
Congrats on the new site. I expect that you guys will make valuable contributions to the preparedness community and I expect to be a regular visitor.
One of the post SHTF health problems that I have not seen addressed anywhere, other than to say that insulin dependent diabetics are toast, is insulin therapy for diabetics, which, as I’m sure you know, will be a big killer in any post SHTF scenario.
I read somewhere, several years ago, that there used to be an old publication covering non-laboratory insulin production from animal pancreas’s that could alleviate the problem of availability of pharma produced product for diabetics after SHTF.
It is my understanding that all references to what I will call “home grown” insulin production have been systemically wiped from reference by the medical establishment and big pharma for several obvious reasons. However, insulin dependence will be an immediate and ongoing health need (crisis) in any SHTF scenario and production techniques and procedures, based on old technology would benefit many post SHTF communities.
Any chance that the site will address this health need, with obvious disclaimers of liability for the results of anyone attempting to produce “home grown” insulin?
My little brother is type I diabetic; I’m interested in this as well, for obvious reasons. Added this question to the list of topics. I will try to find some form of DIY stuff.
I’m not real convinced that Big Pharma is suppressing the recipe for home-grown insulin. Nowadays its grown in bacterial or yeast cultures, and is an undertaking that would be difficult without all the proper equipment.
See here, for a cartoonish overview: http://www.dnalc.org/view/15929-How-insulin-is-made-using-yeast.html
Now, for my money, if I were to re-invent that particular wheel, I’d make thermostable insulin: http://www.case.edu/med/biochemistry/highlight_insulin.html
See also, here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2386938/
See also, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEZQO2kt2Js
For now, my brother has slowly developed a reserve, which he keeps in a small, highly insulated fridge, that he can run off a solar-power fed battery system (he works at a company that makes the solar panels/battery combos).
Thanks for the links and look forward to future topics.
Hello folks,thanks for trying to get more information out to people.I have very limited skills beyond basic patient stabilisation and then hoping for more knowledgeable folks to come and aid.A emt friend tries to help learning and even that is very rudimentary as bud lives other side of country and mostly phone/sending me info./links ect.Any thoughts on how someone with a limited budget can gain some useful skills.I live in small town and in the old days town would run classes to learn emt skills with hopes that folks would volunteer locally.In todays age when budgets swallowed by mrap maintenance(kidding for moment!)what is a good path for one gain decent basic skills and perhaps then further said skills.I was thinking even if not “officially sanctioned”perhaps folks with emt/para skills along with outside the box skills could perhaps have a occasional class for folks in the area,perhaps a bit of site could be setup for such a purpose. for different states/regions.For all I know this already happens and if so would be glad to hear about such opportunity(one a side note,doesn’t hurt as much as when younger do admit”I don’t know!”).Anyhow,will bookmark site and check in in future and see what ideas/knowledge ect. turn up,take care,James
You are the point of this site. I don’t know your level of training, but run through the lessons, do the assignments (please!), over time you should get better. We are focused on minimizing costs, all the books we use are online for free; if we do recommend gear (and you will need some) we make sure to find a good value item, not the most expensive crap on Amazon.
We haven’t gotten to the point of developing classes or groups. If you know some folks in the business, whether EMT, nursing, docs, then this is a good time to network, build tribe, and learn. It may be that the tribe-building, will be more important than the medical knowledge!
Thanks for the comment and suggestions. At this point, the most basic thing I can recommend is to check out http://www.redcross.org/take-a-class and look for First Aid, CPR, and AED classes in your area. They tend to be pretty cheap and a are a great networking opportunity. Also check the community colleges in your area for EMT-Basic classes. That’s a six month commitment, but it’s a great base to build on.
I am working on a more detailed post that will have lots of links to places to get EMT-Basic training and some ancillary stuff. Hope to have it up before the end of the week. Stay tuned!
Thanks Mike &Ed,as I perused the site one thing I can mention that may be of help is most states fish and game offer classes in compass orienteering that may be helpful for search and rescue(and perhaps,not being needed to be searched for!)along with a very basic first aid field course in some states at least here in New England.I also met some cool folks with like minded desire for knowledge so a good thing there.These courses many times already paid for with hunting licenses/tax on firearms/fishing/bow gear though not sure how long that will last.I would really love to take a emt course but when I say funds limited,I do mean limited!That said,will learn when/where I can and at least try and increase my knowledge and skills along with some basic first aid gear in hunting bag which always travels with me whether in car/hiking ect.
Thanks for the heads up on the orienteering/first aid courses; that is a great start. And I think it wise to have a basic first aid/blowout kit with you at all times, especially times where there is a possibility of a hunting accident. I also take it to the range, just in case someone gets stupid with gun safety.
Wow, glad I found this site, it’s awesome. I tip my hat to all who provide the information. As an RN and former MEDIC i can appreciate what ya’ll are doing here, and I think it’s great. As I always say “learn something new everyday”- and I do! Ya’ll tell it like it is and don’t sugar coat it, we need more of this in this world.
Seriously consider a WEMT course in your area.
You have several Tier One providers up there. Google will be a help.
WEMT specializes in wilderness/LOOOOONG transit times care.
Also consider a Immediate Action Medical course (there are LOTS of them but Tactical Response is the one I’m familiar with the staff for).
And yes TR does it as a shooting course pretty much. Don’t let Yeager’s ownership of TR put you off. His Medical instruction staff is pretty much Tier One.
Blue,thanks for pointing this out,there is a school in N.H. that offers WEMT course,will look into it but as mentioned funds a bit tight but the ball of wax holds together long enuff could perhaps pull off a late Spring course.As for TR have no problem with firearms and will say as I have no idea who Yeager is would not at least at moment be put off his ownership(classes mostly in Teen. a bit of a truck for me though!)There is closer in state and am actually looking into it a bit today online and perhaps with more research may attend in Spring.Thanks for pointing out WEMT to me as till today had idea of it’s existence.
Click to access AM%20Final%202.pdf
An existing doc you all might be interested in.
(RESQDOC was part of this effort, BTW)
Hard copy version (above is a .pdf)
Click. Save. Thank you BMP!
I checked RESQDOC out, he is the real deal. But I suppose you already knew that.
I have read the document you link to, it’s also good stuff. I suspect you knew that as well.
I have sent an email to the yahoo account I found; if that doesn’t work, can you set up an introduction?
Drop me a line at email@example.com if your contact doesn’t go. Keith has had an issue or two but given his background this would be expected.
He sent me an email back, conversation ongoing. But dropped you a line anyway.
Thanks for doing this. If people have the time I suggest they may have something to gain by joining a local CERT group. It is voluntary and you can get considerable training in medical as well as other areas. Nearly every county seat has one as FEMA wants local citizens to be able to take care of themselves. Like others I have limited medical knowledge and one thing I am looking for is supplies I might be wise having in case shtf and it becomes a problem with clinics and hospitals to get new supplies. What can I stock that would be helpful for a professional to use to aid my family?
Things to stock is clearly part of our list. There should be a post today-ish about gear to stock to take blood pressure.
Lots of questions about gear; I confess that my own opinion is that you should get trained, first; then gear. Frankly, if you’ve the training, you will have a much better idea as to what gear to buy, or how to improvise it if stuff is unavailable.
That said, one thing you should certainly stockpile is as much of the meds you currently take as is possible, given insurance and expiration date limitations.
This will deserve its own post, likely several posts.
Also, thanks for reminding me about CERT training. Will add that to our list of formal classes to recommend; my father in law (ex-Special Forces medic) had recommended that as well.
Brilliant idea and Kudos to you. I’m very excited about this blog. Good luck.
Thank you Miss Violet. Appreciate it and welcome!
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Re: previous mention of insulin sources – interesting reading WRT (mostly) backyard production (kind of):
and lerusalem artichokes as a source of inulin (not insulin):
Real life opinions on the efficacy of colloidal silver treating MRSA would be of interest too.
Inulin is a very, very different thing, and I agree, should not be confused with insulin.
The Saxl story is interesting, but I should point out that the hubby was an accomplished chemist with his lab at his disposal.
Have added the colloidal silver/MRSA topic to the list of things to discuss.
Sorry – didn’t intend for the ad to appear.
Just lightly perusing the site and I can see you’re going to make me work and use my grey cells. Yes, I know I already commented but this site is pure genius and just what the community needs.
Reblogged this on The Lynler Report.
In a future article, could you discuss how to navigate healthcare today, before the crash where we all have to do surgery in MASH tents by candlelight? Topics I’d love to hear about include:
The lodge doctor was the traditional American affordable healthcare system for the middle-ish class. What you can say in public today about a lodge doctor product offering, without getting prosecuted for offering unlicensed health insurance? For lodges: where to find a doctor who wants to be a lodge doctor. For patients: How to find a lodge with a lodge doctor.
The Surgery Center of Oklahoma http://www.surgerycenterok.com has radically cheaper prices because they didn’t hire the paper-pushers. I hear Obamacare banned the creation or expansion of doctor-owned hospitals, but maybe that can be gotten around. What if a hospital is owned by lumberjacks or fishermen or clowns?
Where to buy inexpensive imported gray market medicines made by first world factories in India, Mexico, etc.
This will need to turn into a full post, I can give you a few thoughts now.
The functional equivalent of what used to be called a Lodge Doctor (for those not aware, many of the Fraternal Orders in the past had a doctor on call, and membership entitled you to his/her care) is now known as Concierge Medicine. Methods vary, but in short you pay the physician a retainer’s fee, and you have unlimited visits at a reduced cost. Typically folks also pick up catastrophic medical coverage as well, to cover any major stuff like car wrecks, cancer, and whatnot. They now have their own site where you can find one in your area: http://www.aapp.org
I am well aware of The Surgery Center and admire them intensely. Obamacare has done many vomitous things, in my opinion. I wouldn’t be surprised if it did that as well, but I have not read the law closely enough to verify.
Gray market medicines I’ll not touch on without a lot more information.
I would say for “grey market” medicines in regards to things like antibiotics ect. can still be gotten through sites marketing for fish care ect.These meds have to pass fda inspections(for whatever good that is).I will say some movement in the fed levels to end this backdoor.I would say for other things necc. look as much as possible to alternatives that one can grow/grind/manufacture on their own.That said,a lot of sites for other stuff,whether your shipment gets blocked or not a different story and some selling poison(will say a lot of meds are poison)and ones that want to stay in business for any period of time will sell quality products,buyer beware and use all the common sense you have.
fish meds come of the line WAY down past where you want to be putting that stuff into your body.
I’d have to search for RESQDOC’s explanation on that but he admitted to using some of them and indicated that the experience was worse than being shot.
Blue,have never used personally but the antibiotics like amox/pen/doxi ect. are the same ones you get over the at your local pharmacy along with freshness dates/fda approval ect.You may not want to use these meds for other reasons but seem the same as any doc/hospital will supply,interested in what you find though.
What would you recommend we stock up on NOW given that we don’t know how long the stuff will have to remain in storage. Rotating the stuff really means throwing away the outdated stuff unused, while waiting for THE DAY.
This is a great question. Best I can offer at this point is to use this question to help prioritize: “What’s going to kill me or make me seriously ill the fastest from a lack of access to something I use daily?”
To that end, (and riffing on Doc Grouch’s earlier post) any life-preserving prescriptions you are taking would be advisable to stack deep.
We’ll definitely get a detailed post on this, because I know it looms large in the minds of many. We’ll operate on the principle that training trumps gear every time, so we’ll make sure to point out the risks of stocking advanced gear. Stay tuned!
Whichever meds you take, are likely to be ok on a long term basis.
See this article: http://www.drugs.com/article/drug-expiration-dates.html
Based on this study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16721796
When one tries to log into the actual study, not just the report, you get this big warning about monitored, classified, DoD property. I decided not to.
There are certain classes of drugs that are less stable. Unfortunately, insulin (working on an uberpost there) some antibiotics; “biologicals”, which include vaccines and certain cancer/rheumatoid drugs such as monoclonal antibodies are among the biggies. Also, common sense would dictate that if your life is dependent on a drug, and not just the drug but a precise amount of that drug, then having new stuff is likely better.
Will turn this into a Quick Post soon.
IF you have access via a .mil e-mail addy you MAY be able to access the SLEP study you mentioned above.
BUT there is a VERY LEGIT reason they pulled most of the results in SLEP.
WAY too many folks will assume that their storage is close enough to the storage in SLEP to plan on those numbers. And they will be critically wrong.
SLEP is a HEAVILY CONTROLLED TEMP/Humidity storage program and your average prepper or survivalist figures his back room or basement is equivalent and it really isn’t.
Though I would REALLY like to get access one more time..
You need an email mailing list as new content is added. Most people at too lazy to check back
David – done deal. Just realized I left the email signup form off of the homepage. Look in the right-side column of the page and you should be able to sign up via email now. Thanks for coming by.